Saturday, March 26, 2011

Answering Agniveer on Challenge of The Noble Qur'an


Dr. Zakir Naik :
THE CHALLENGE OF THE QUR’AAN
“Literature and poetry have been instruments of human expression and creativity, in all cultures. The world also witnessed an age when literature and poetry occupied pride of position, similar to that now enjoyed by science and technology.” Muslims as well as non-Muslims agree that Al-Qur’aan is Arabic literature par excellence – that it is the best Arabic literature on the face of the earth.
The Qur’aan, challenges mankind in the following verses: “And if ye are in doubt As to what We have revealed From time to time to Our Servant, then produce a Soorah Like there unto; And call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, If your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot -And of a surety you cannot. Then fear the Fire Whose fuel is Men and Stones – Which is prepared for those Who reject Faith.” [Al-Qur'aan 2:23-24] The challenge of the Qur’aan, is to produce a single Soorah (chapter) like the Soorahs it contains. The same challenge is repeated in the Qur’aan several times. The challenge to produce a Soorah, which, in beauty, eloquence, depth and meaning is at least somewhat similar to a Qur’aanic Soorah remains unmet to this day.
Agniveer :
Dr. Naik understands that literature and poetry are instruments of HUMAN expression and creativity. This implies that the brilliance or mediocrity of a literary work can only be attributed to a HUMAN and not to some DIVINE entity. Despite that understanding, he naively reproduces the Challenge of the Quran to prove its Divinity.
How can an instrument of human expression prove or disprove the DIVINITY of a text? It’s impossible!
My Response :
I need  to laugh at that argument because Dr. Zakir said : Literature and poetry have been instruments of human expression and creativity, in all cultures.
But Agniveer says :
This implies that the brilliance or mediocrity of a literary work can only be attributed to a HUMAN and not to some DIVINE entity.
Did Dr. Zakir use the word only ? (Attacking Straw man)
Agniveer :
Let’s list down the facts that make the challenge of the Quran self-defeating and naive:
  1. Literary excellence is no guarantee of divinity of a text. So It’s futile to throw or accept this challenge, as it would not prove or disprove the divinity of the book even when the challenge is met!
My Response :
I agree that just literary excellence is not the guarantee for a text to be divine but literary excellence combined with Scientific Miracles , Mathematical Miracles and such divine challenges prove The Noble Qur'an to be divine.


Agniveer :
The challenge builds on a flawed assumption that if no comparable work exists for a given work, then it must be Divine. By that logic, even Mona Lisa is from God and Meghadootam of Kalidas is the word of God because these masterpieces have no parallels. Right?


My Response :

Agniveer has misunderstood the verse without knowing the historical context. This verse was for the people who claimed that The Prophet actually invented the Qur'an himself and claimed that they have heard/got revelation of such verses :

They have mentioned that `Amr bin Al-`As went to visit Musaylimah Al-Kadhdhab after the Messenger of Allah was commissioned (as a Prophet) and before `Amr had accepted Islam. Upon his arrival, Musaylimah said to him, "What has been revealed to your friend (Muhammad ) during this time'' `Amr said, "A short and concise Surah has been revealed to him.'' Musaylimah then said, "What is it'' `Amr replied;
(By Al-`Asr. Verily, man is in loss. Except those who believe and do righteous deeds, and recommend one another to the truth, and recommend one another to patience.) So Musaylimah thought for a while. Then he said, "Indeed something similar has also been revealed to me.'' `Amr asked him, "What is it'' He replied, "O Wabr (a small, furry mammal; hyrax), O Wabr! You are only two ears and a chest, and the rest of you is digging and burrowing.'' Then he said, "What do you think, O `Amr'' So `Amr said to him, "By Allah! Verily, you know that I know you are lying.'' I saw that Abu Bakr Al-Khara'iti mentioned a chain of narration for part of this story, or what was close to its meaning, in volume two of his famous book Masawi' ul-Akhlaq. The Wabr is a small animal that resembles a cat, and the largest thing on it is its ears and its torso, while the rest of it is ugly. Musayli- mah intended by the composition of these nonsensical verses to produce something which would oppose the Qur'an. Yet, it was not even convin- cing to the idol wor- shipper of that time. At-Tabarani recorded from `Abdullah bin Hisn Abi Madinah that he said, "Whenever two men from the Companions of the Messenger of Allah used to meet, they would not part until one of them had recited Surat Al-`Asr in its entirety to the other, and one of them had given the greetings of peace to the other.'' Ash-Shafi`i said, "If the people were to ponder on this Surah, it would be sufficient for them.''

People also claimed that Muhammad (peace be upon him) actually plagiarized the text. For them :
Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He forged it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah , if you should be truthful."
Well , did Leonardo Da-Vinci or Kalidas give such a challenge ?
Moreover, its not just a challenge the verse further says : 

But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.



The surety that no one will be able to do it actually shows the divinity of text.


Agniveer :
Another flaw in this challenge is that it sets the challenger as the arbitrator/judge. So any Tom, Dick and Harry with a bunch of his friends can defeat the author of the Quran. All they have to do, is to attest that their friend has written a surah better than the author of the Quran and we’re done!


My Response :

Where does the Qur'an say that the challenger is the Judge ?
And again you forgot the surety :
But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.

The surety that no one will be able to do it actually shows the divinity of text.


Agniveer :

The biggest blunder of this challenge is that the author of the Quran was unaware of the almost zero structural impact of replacing nouns and pronouns with each other within certain statements/verses . For example, if we change “Muslims” with “kafirs” and “kafirs” with “Muslims” in any verse of the Quran, we would have created an ANTI-QURAN which matches exactly and undoubtedly with the Quran in literary excellence!!!

My Response :
Ha Ha Ha What an argument ? Plagiarism from the Qur'an itself to fulfill the challenge of Qur'an ?


Agniveer :

Finally, it’s utterly dumb of a Creator to challenge his Creation to outdo Him. Why would a sensible creator do that? Imagine a car manufacturer (we like the car example because that’s a favorite of Zakir Bhai) throwing challenge at the car to run above its maximum design speed! Such a manufacturer would need a brain check up as he seems to forget that it is HE ALONE who has put the limits to the speed of his car. If he is not sure about the speed limits of his car, it implies that he lacks complete knowledge of his own product! On the other hand, if he does know the speed limits of the car and still challenges it, he needs mental treatment. Thus either Allah is not omniscient or He needs medical attention.

My Response :
I clearly stated why this challenge was given to mankind and people like you (Agniveer) cannot digest it . It was for the people who claimed that The Prophet actually invented the Qur'an himself and claimed that they have heard/got revelation of such verses.
People also claimed that Muhammad (peace be upon him) actually plagiarized the text. For them :
Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He forged it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah , if you should be truthful."
Again , read the  verse (You said : Thus either Allah is not omniscient )
But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.

Say, "If mankind and the jinn gathered in order to produce the like of this Qur'an, they could not produce the like of it, even if they were to each other assistants."



The surety that no one will be able to do it actually shows the divinity of text and the omniscience of Allah.




Agniveer :
In one paragraph we found the irrationality of a Quranic miracle and in the next Dr. Naik offered us an irrational, preposterous challenge of Quran.
I am afraid, as we investigate further…Would we end up concluding that Quran is not meant for rational persons at all? Allah forbid!
[PS: Dear reader, these are additional facts. Not necessary, but good to know in this context:
  • Many people have produced surahs like the Quran and few could tell the difference .Please Google about the furqan and suralikeit controversy to know more
  • Many Muslim as well as non-Muslim scholars DO NOT agree with the claim that Al-Quran is literature par excellence. Ali Dashti, a famous scholar punctures this claim quite effectively in his works.
My Response :

Just because some people have come up with reply to the challenges does not mean that they have actually done that. Regarding the True Furqan watch this 

 and moreover anyone who has read the Qur'an can see that it has copied whole sale from Qur'an.

What makes The Qur'an Inimitable ?

1. The Unique Literary Form of the Qur'an
2. The Unique Linguistic Genre
3. Eloquence
4. Frequency of Rhetorical Features
5. Rational Deduction
Lets see what People said about The Noble Qur'an :

  • ... the Meccans still demanded of him a miracle, and with remarkable boldness and self confidence Mohammad appealed as a supreme confirmation of his mission to the Koran itself. Like all Arabs they were the connoisseurs of language and rhetoric. Well, then if the Koran were his own composition other men could rival it. Let them produce ten verses like it. If they could not (and it is obvious that they could not), them let them accept the Koran as an outstanding evident miracle.247(The well-known Arabist Hamilton Gibb of the University of Oxford)
  • As a literary monument the Koran thus stands by itself, a production unique to the Arabic literature, having neither forerunners nor successors in its own idiom. Muslims of all ages are united in proclaiming the inimitability not only of its contents but also of its style.248 (Well-known Arabist Hamilton Gibb)
  • The influence of the Koran on the development of Arabic Literature has been incalculable, and exerted in many directions. Its ideas, its language, its rhymes pervade all subsequent literary works in greater or less measure. Its specific linguistic features were not emulated, either in the chancery prose of the next century or in the later prose writings, but it was at least partly due to the flexibility imparted by the Koran to the High Arabic idiom that the former could be so rapidly developed and adjusted to the new needs of the imperial government and an expanding society.249 (Well-known Arabist Hamilton Gibb)
  • Whenever [Prophet] Muhammad [saas] was asked a miracle, as a proof of the authenticity of his mission, he quoted the composition of the Qur'an and its incomparable excellence as proof of its divine origin. And, in fact, even for those who are non-Muslims nothing is more marvellous than its language with such apprehensible plenitude and a grasping sonority… The ampleness of its syllables with a grandiose cadence and with a remarkable rhythm have been of much moment in the conversion of the most hostile and the most sceptic.250 (From Paul Casanova's article, "L'Enseignement de I'Arabe au College de France" [The Arab Teaching at the College of France])
  • All those who are acquainted with the Qur'an in Arabic agree in praising the beauty of this religious book; its grandeur of form is so sublime that no translation into any European language can allow us to appreciate it.252 (From Edward Montet's Traduction Francaise du Coran [French Translation of the Qur'an])
  • A miracle of purity of style of wisdom and of truth.255 (From Rev. R. Bosworth Smith's book, Mohammed and Mohammadanism)
  • It [the Qur'an] has a rhythm of peculiar beauty and a cadence that charms the ear. Many Christian Arabs speak of its style with warm admiration, and most Arabists acknowledge its excellence… indeed it may be affirmed that within the literature of the Arabs, wide and fecund as it is both in poetry and in elevated prose, there is nothing to compare with it.256 (From Alfred Guillaume's book, Islam)
  • The Koran abounds in excellent moral suggestions and precepts, its composition is so fragmentary that we cannot turn to a single page without finding maxims of which all men must approve. This fragmentary construction yields texts, and mottoes, and rules complete in themselves, suitable for common men in any of the incidents of life.258 (From John William Draper's book, A History of the Intellectual Development of Europe)
  • The Qur'an in its original Arabic dress has a seductive beauty and charm of its own Couched in concise and exalted style, its brief pregnant sentences, often rhymed, possess an expressive force and explosive energy which it is extremely difficult to convey by literal word for word translation.253 (From John Naish's book,The Wisdom of the Qur'an)
  • ... We have a book absolutely unique in its origin, in its preservation… on the Substantial authority of which no one has ever been able to cast a serious doubt.264 (From Rev. Bosworth Smith's book, Muhammad and Muhammadanism)
  • “It soon attracts, astounds, and in the end enforces our reverence… Its style, in accordance with its contents and aim is stern, grand – ever and always, truly sublime – So, this book will go on exercising through all ages a most potent influence.” [Goethe - quoted in T. P. Huges "Dictionary of Islam", p. 526]
  • “It is impossible that Muhammad (peace be upon him) authored the Quran. How could a man, from being illiterate, become the most important author, in terms of literary merits, in the whole of Arabic literature? How could he then pronounce truths of a scientific nature that no other human-being could possibly have developed at that time, an all this without once making the slightest error in his pronouncement on the subject?” 
             [Dr. Maurice Bucaille - author of "The Bible, the Quran and Science" 1978, p. 125]
Dr. Zakir Naik :
A modern rational man, however, would never accept a religious scripture, which says, in the best possible poetic language, that the world is flat. This is because we live in an age, where human reason, logic and science are given primacy. Not many would accept the Qur'aan's extraordinarily beautiful language, as proof of its Divine origin.

Agniveer :
As has been explained above, literary excellence cannot by itself be the proof of divinity. So No rational person would ever accept Quran as divine because of that alone. But Dr. Naik brings up another point in this piece. Here he rightly suggests that if any religious scripture goes against scientifically established fact, it should not be accepted.
Now the question to ask is whether Quran goes against a scientific fact or not? What does the Quran say about the shape of the Earth?
We'll know very soon  But please remember, if the Quran goes against a scientifically established truth, Dr. Naik requests you to not accept the Quran as a religious scripture.

My Response :
Lets See !!

Dr. Zakir Naik :
The Qur'aan is not a book of science but a book of 'signs', i.e. ayats. There are more than six thousand 'signs' in the Qur'aan of which more than a thousand deal with science

Agniveer :
Dr. Naik’s generalization that 1/6th of Quran is dedicated to science is without evidence. He does not provide any reference of the 1000+ verses dedicated to science. Appeal to false authority?
As far as signs of Allah are concerned, the less said about them the better. An example of such a sign is the natural phenomenon of eclipse, that is well explained and understood by science. But in Islam, this very natural phenomenon is treated as a 'sign' of Allah!
My Response :
Its not a hasty generalization it is the truth but you will find them only if you be logical and scientific because it does not go down your throat.
LOL You don't understand the meaning of sign ,in Qur'an it means a phenomenon that shows the existence of God and the truth of Islam.

We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?   -Surah Fussilat (41:53)

Dr. Zakir Naik :
We all know that many a times Science takes a 'U-turn'. In this book I have considered only established scientific facts and not mere hypotheses and theories that are based on assumptions and are not backed by proof.

Agniveer :
Dr. Naik should have elaborated on the criteria he applied to distinguish between established scientific facts and mere theories that are prone to the U-Turn syndrome. It's a very tricky game even for the scientists Anyways, let's give him the benefit of doubt on this one and channel our energies in investigating the evidence (the Quranic Verses) he offers in support of science in the Quran instead.

My Response :
Lets Go on and See !!


Rebuttal to Agniveer on Moon's Light in Noble Qur'an

Dr. Zakir Naik :



THE LIGHT OF THE MOON IS REFLECTED LIGHT
It was believed by earlier civilizations that the moon emanates its own light. Science now tells us that the light of the moon is reflected light. However this fact was mentioned in the Qur’aan 1,400 years ago in the following verse:. Blessed is He Who made Constellations in the skies, And placed therein a Lamp And a Moon giving light.” [Al-Qur'aan 25:61]
The Arabic word for the sun in the Qur’aan, is shams. It is referred to as siraaj, which means a ‘torch’ or as wahhaaj which means ‘a blazing lamp’ or as diya which means ‘shining glory’. All three descriptions are appropriate to the sun, since it generates intense heat and light by its internal combustion. The Arabic word for the moon is qamar and it is described in the Qur’aan as muneer, which is a body that gives nur i.e. light. Again, the Qur’aanic description matches perfectly with the true nature of the moon, which does not give off light itself and is an inert body that reflects the light of the sun. Not once in the Qur’aan, is the moon mentioned as siraaj, wahhaaj or diya or the sun as nur or muneer. This implies that the Qur’aan recognizes the difference between the nature of sunlight and moonlight.
The Arabic word dahaha has been translated by A. Yusuf Ali as “vast expanse”, which also is correct. The word dahaha also means an ostrich-egg
Consider the following verses related to the nature of light from the sun and the moon: “It is He who made the sun To be a shining glory And the moon to be a light (Of beauty).” [Al-Qur'aan 10:5] “See ye not How Allah has created The seven heavens One above another, “And made the moon A light in their midst, and made the sun As a (Glorious) Lamp?” [Al-Qur'aan 71:15-16]‘

Agniveer :
As has been already shared, Aryabhatta not only explained that moon and other planets reflect the sun’s light but also explained eclipses. Dr. Naik needs to read about some great non-Arabic civilizations of the time (I wonder how he missed this one being born in a civilization as great as Indian – anyways).

My Response :
I agree that some people even before Aryabhatta reasoned that moon's light is a reflection but what Dr. Zakir meant was that this idea was not unanimously accepted everywhere on earth until recent times.
The ancient Greek philosopher Anaxagoras (d. 428 BC) reasoned that the Sun and Moon were both giant spherical rocks, and that the latter reflected the light of the former.
Although the Chinese of the Han Dynasty believed the Moon to be energy equated to qi, their 'radiating influence' theory also recognized that the light of the Moon was merely a reflection of the Sun.
As seen above it was put forward by ancient people but it was not accepted overall until recent scientific observations confirmed it.
Agniveer :
Now if Dr. Naik is to be believed, Nur means reflected light. No previous Islamic scholar has made this scandalous claim before – and do you know why? Because one of the 99 Names of the God of Quran (Allah) is AN-Nur. If we translate this word according to Dr. Naik’s definition Allah’s name would become:THE REFLECTED LIGHT! Now the question to ask Dr. Naik is that if Allah is “reflected light” who is the Original Light Source? [We await Dr. Naik's answer to this question eagerly]
My Response :
Meaning of the word Noor :
نور  (noor):  بيّن (bayyan)  reveal, reflect.
نور (noor):  be revealed, to be lighted, to receive light.
Now Agniveer claims that No previous Islamic scholar has made this scandalous claim before :
Ibn Kathir (May Allah Be Pleased With Him) (1301–1373) says in his Tafsir of The Noble Qur'an :
the sun rises each day and sets at the end of the day, giving one kind of light all the time, but it moves, rising and setting at different points in the summer and winter, thus making the days and nights longer or shorter alternatively according to the season. Its authority is in the daytime, for it is the heavenly body that dominates the day. As for the moon, Allah has decreed that it should pass through different phases. At the beginning of the month, the moon appears small when it rises. It gives off little light, then on the second night its light increases and it rises to a higher position, and the higher it rises the more light it gives -- even though it is reflected from the sun -- until it becomes full on the fourteenth night of the month.
Coming to the name of Allah as An-Noor , it actually refers to the spiritual light of Allah which is reflected in the Heavens and Earth moreover the verse (24:35) in which Allah is referred as An-Noor smokes Agniveer itself (if thought that An-Noor actually refers to physical light of Allah) when read fully :
 اللَّهُ نُورُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ ۚ مَثَلُ نُورِهِ كَمِشْكَاةٍ فِيهَا مِصْبَاحٌ ۖ الْمِصْبَاحُ فِي زُجَاجَةٍ ۖ الزُّجَاجَةُ كَأَنَّهَا كَوْكَبٌ دُرِّيٌّ يُوقَدُ مِن شَجَرَةٍ مُّبَارَكَةٍ زَيْتُونَةٍ لَّا شَرْقِيَّةٍ وَلَا غَرْبِيَّةٍ يَكَادُ زَيْتُهَا يُضِيءُ وَلَوْ لَمْ تَمْسَسْهُ نَارٌ ۚ نُّورٌ عَلَىٰ نُورٍ ۗ يَهْدِي اللَّهُ لِنُورِهِ مَن يَشَاءُ ۚ وَيَضْرِبُ اللَّهُ الْأَمْثَالَ لِلنَّاسِ ۗ وَاللَّهُ بِكُلِّ شَيْءٍ عَلِيمٌ
Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly [white] star lit from [the oil of] a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. Light upon light. Allah guides to His light whom He wills. And Allah presents examples for the people, and Allah is Knowing of all things.
The phrases Light of the heavens and the earth  and  Allah guides to His light whom He wills  clearly show that it refers to the spiritual light of Allah which is reflected in the Universe. However for those who insist that it is physical the rest of example   The example of His light is like a niche within which is a lamp, the lamp is within glass, the glass as if it were a pearly [white] star lit from [the oil of] a blessed olive tree, neither of the east nor of the west, whose oil would almost glow even if untouched by fire. shows that Allah has his own light which he reflects himself just like a halogen lamp which gives its own light and also has a reflector provided which reflects its own light.
Agniveer :
Dr. Naik, probably embarrassed, has not shared the entire verses 71:15-16. Here they are
15-16 “See ye not 
how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another. And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?” So what do we have here:
–Again the Greek/Judaic philosophical thought of 7 heavens in which various stars and planets and sun and moon can be SEEN by the naked eye. Hence Allah’s insistence in this verse too. He is asking everybody to look at the planets which are visible at dawn and dusk, the stars, the planets, the moon all believed to be stationed in their respective layers of the 7 layered heaven
–Another blunder is that Moon is placed IN BETWEEN (in the midst of) these Layers. Another verse tells us that stars are in the lower heavens.. implying that moon is farther than the stars from us.
My Response :
Do you not consider how Allah has created seven heavens in layers.And made the moon therein a [reflected] light and made the sun a burning lamp?
Allah asks the modern human's of today that don't they consider how Allah has made all this. Regarding 7 heavens it has been refuted above. Noble Qur'an does not say that moon is in between the  heavens it says that Allah has made the moon in the heaven (notice the word therein , it does not say in between them) so Agniveer's statement    implying that moon is farther than the stars from us.  falls apart.
Agniveer :
Another big hole in this argument is that it ties Nur with Moon. Aryabhatta told us 100 years before Quran that ALL PLANETS reflect sun light. Earth is also a Nur (borrowing Dr. Naik innovative translation) when looked from the Moon. [Ask Rakesh Sharma or Neil Armstrong. Better use Google].
My Response :
Is this an argument ? Does the Noble Qur'an anywhere deny that the Earth is Noor ?